Do People Want More TvT?

[E.Hermanson]

All,

Let me preface this by repeating once more: I know this weekend's TvT was something of a meme. My apologies. I tried something new by pitting light infantry against mechanized infantry; I expected the former's numbers to counteract the latter's firepower, but it didn't, and in retrospect I should have anticipated that. Future TvTs -- and yes, regardless of the results of this poll, inevitably there will be future TvTs -- will be designed in such a way to mitigate these inherent advantages. Many of you submitted great feedback and helpful suggestions, like incorporating civilians / stricter ROEs or adding AI to supplement the defenders. We'll be looking to implement some or all of these in future TvT events.

With that said, our debrief revealed what appeared to be an overwhelming desire for more TvT -- provided, of course, the missions are properly balanced. Sound off in the poll above so I can figure out exactly what the ratio is.

Bear in mind that regardless of the results of this poll, we will neither drastically increase the amount of TvT we do nor cease doing them altogether. This unit remains a predominantly PvE unit; with that said, TvT offers significant training opportunities the AI simply cannot provide. If we find the unit overwhelmingly wants more TvT, I'll be more comfortable prescribing it for training where appropriate (as opposed to the current doctrine of avoiding it unless absolutely necessary), but we won't be replacing any of our usual training schedule.



Thanks,

ETHAN B. HERMANSON
Captain, IN
Commanding

[D.Stojic]

SOMETIMES!

[G.Amant]

Having some dedicated Zeus players changes the playstyle a lot, as well. Then, there is always a possibility the AI you are up against is suddenly human controlled and even a numbnut with the slightest understanding of the game knows that it is advantageous to plant his RPG into a grouped up squad. Knowing that this is always a possibility with a dedicated Zeus would make it a lot more realistic from a training perspective AND makes TvT's obsolete, since we are used to playing against 'Humans' anyway.
Good things to consider for the next TvT's going forward:

1) 1st vs 2nd platoon will never be balanced if the Bradley's are joining in. NEVER EVER is this balanced. I used to be a Bradley gunner myself in another unit. In the 3 month period I did this, I was taken down 4 times total. 1 time due to arma being arma, 2 times to an IED and 1 time to an RPG and this was with a dedicated Zeus. Trust me, it was not for lack of effort. I think you all underestimate what a bradley is capable off. If you have 1, just the 1, sitting on top of a hill overviewing a town, the whole town is pinned down.
TL;DR: Never use 1st platoon as cannon meat for 2nd's Bradleys. If you want platoon v platoon, then leave the Bradley's home.

2) Don't let us play as a militia against an armed force. It doesn't come to anyone's surprise that a soldier equipped with thousands of dollars of gear can overpower Jamal and his AK without even a scope. Let us be the (un)friendly neighbourhood army that at least can compete with another armed force. IE: Russians or another Conventional Force

3) If you still decide it should be “durka durkas” running around in robes with their AKs, ask for volunteers to do so, and get some kind of respawn system in place so the numbers even out. Not many people like to be on the losing side of an unfair battle. At the end of the day, we are here to play PvE, and don’t want to be forced into unfair PvP situations.

Obviously these are just my thoughts put down. Always love to get some feedback over this.

[M.Lafontaine]

I think playing with un-balanced odds is fun. Having a respawn system might nuke the whole "If I die I'm gone" type of deal, but it would help with balancing things. I think what we experienced last week-end was just bad luck, 1st platoon had heavily reduced forces, and on top of that our technicals got blown to smithereens from the start (that was my own poor judgment, with experience now I wouldn't sit the technical in a still position and just wait for the Bradleys to start shooting and then take it out and kill those hunks of metal). We would have had a better chance, having the actual tools.

They being said, I think armored vehicles should still be used, I personally am at bliss when shit is blowing left and right and I know if I don't wake up and do something about it ill die in the next couple of seconds.

Also, putting IEDs on bridges and waiting for the US forces to cross is my favorite thing. That and playing loud duka duka music while crossing a town at 100km/h with a retard on the m2 shooting everywhere even though there's no enemy there.

[T.Worrall]

Having some dedicated Zeus players changes the playstyle a lot, as well. Then, there is always a possibility the AI you are up against is suddenly human controlled and even a numbnut with the slightest understanding of the game knows that it is advantageous to plant his RPG into a grouped up squad. Knowing that this is always a possibility with a dedicated Zeus would make it a lot more realistic from a training perspective AND makes TvT's obsolete, since we are used to playing against 'Humans' anyway.
Good things to consider for the next TvT's going forward:

1) 1st vs 2nd platoon will never be balanced if the Bradley's are joining in. NEVER EVER is this balanced. I used to be a Bradley gunner myself in another unit. In the 3 month period I did this, I was taken down 4 times total. 1 time due to arma being arma, 2 times to an IED and 1 time to an RPG and this was with a dedicated Zeus. Trust me, it was not for lack of effort. I think you all underestimate what a bradley is capable off. If you have 1, just the 1, sitting on top of a hill overviewing a town, the whole town is pinned down.
TL;DR: Never use 1st platoon as cannon meat for 2nd's Bradleys. If you want platoon v platoon, then leave the Bradley's home.

2) Don't let us play as a militia against an armed force. It doesn't come to anyone's surprise that a soldier equipped with thousands of dollars of gear can overpower Jamal and his AK without even a scope. Let us be the (un)friendly neighbourhood army that at least can compete with another armed force. IE: Russians or another Conventional Force

3) If you still decide it should be “durka durkas” running around in robes with their AKs, ask for volunteers to do so, and get some kind of respawn system in place so the numbers even out. Not many people like to be on the losing side of an unfair battle. At the end of the day, we are here to play PvE, and don’t want to be forced into unfair PvP situations.

Obviously these are just my thoughts put down. Always love to get some feedback over this.

Response to your first point:
By your logic, no light-infantry unit can ever stop armoured elements. This is false. If not proven countless times during WW2, it is still a proven fact today from the Iraq war; even Main Battle Tanks can be stopped by determined light-infantry troops. This is why light infantry platoons have four squads, not three: they utilise weapon squads for their increased firepower and anti-tank capabilities. This is purely down to the structure of 1 Platoon, and not down to the inability of light infantry units to combat Bradleys. Javelin missiles are just as effective at killing IFVs, as IFVs are infantry. An appropriate change in the platoon structure during TvT play, and later expansions, will help to balance out the sides.

[E.Rhodes]

I inherently support more TvT especially as we are working to make it more fair, balanced and approachable. I missclicked the poll!

[G.Amant]

Having some dedicated Zeus players changes the playstyle a lot, as well. Then, there is always a possibility the AI you are up against is suddenly human controlled and even a numbnut with the slightest understanding of the game knows that it is advantageous to plant his RPG into a grouped up squad. Knowing that this is always a possibility with a dedicated Zeus would make it a lot more realistic from a training perspective AND makes TvT's obsolete, since we are used to playing against 'Humans' anyway.
Good things to consider for the next TvT's going forward:

1) 1st vs 2nd platoon will never be balanced if the Bradley's are joining in. NEVER EVER is this balanced. I used to be a Bradley gunner myself in another unit. In the 3 month period I did this, I was taken down 4 times total. 1 time due to arma being arma, 2 times to an IED and 1 time to an RPG and this was with a dedicated Zeus. Trust me, it was not for lack of effort. I think you all underestimate what a bradley is capable off. If you have 1, just the 1, sitting on top of a hill overviewing a town, the whole town is pinned down.
TL;DR: Never use 1st platoon as cannon meat for 2nd's Bradleys. If you want platoon v platoon, then leave the Bradley's home.

2) Don't let us play as a militia against an armed force. It doesn't come to anyone's surprise that a soldier equipped with thousands of dollars of gear can overpower Jamal and his AK without even a scope. Let us be the (un)friendly neighbourhood army that at least can compete with another armed force. IE: Russians or another Conventional Force

3) If you still decide it should be “durka durkas” running around in robes with their AKs, ask for volunteers to do so, and get some kind of respawn system in place so the numbers even out. Not many people like to be on the losing side of an unfair battle. At the end of the day, we are here to play PvE, and don’t want to be forced into unfair PvP situations.

Obviously these are just my thoughts put down. Always love to get some feedback over this.

Response to your first point:
By your logic, no light-infantry unit can ever stop armoured elements. This is false. If not proven countless times during WW2, it is still a proven fact today from the Iraq war; even Main Battle Tanks can be stopped by determined light-infantry troops. This is why light infantry platoons have four squads, not three: they utilise weapon squads for their increased firepower and anti-tank capabilities. This is purely down to the structure of 1 Platoon, and not down to the inability of light infantry units to combat Bradleys. Javelin missiles are just as effective at killing IFVs, as IFVs are infantry. An appropriate change in the platoon structure during TvT play, and later expansions, will help to balance out the sides.

Yes but we don't have Javelin missiles to shoot at them. I agree that IRL the odds are about even but not in ArmA. The towns are not as dense as real towns so staying in cover moving from A to B is pretty much impossible in ArmA. Also the point of the lesser equipment for the other team is brought up in point 2 of my origional post.

[M.Lafontaine]

Yes but we don't have Javelin missiles to shoot at them. I agree that IRL the odds are about even but not in ArmA. The towns are not as dense as real towns so staying in cover moving from A to B is pretty much impossible in ArmA. Also the point of the lesser equipment for the other team is brought up in point 2 of my origional post.

‌Your entire argument that the opposition is missing equipment is invalid. Like I mentioned. for that specific scenario they had adequate equipment to fight the Bradleys but those were eliminated at the beginning of the game due to a lack in practical TvT experience on the Opfor side of things. With more and more of those events, I can guaranty you that 1st Platoon will destroy those Bradleys at the start of the game just like you destroyed those technicals.

[G.Amant]

‌Your entire argument that the opposition is missing equipment is invalid. Like I mentioned. for that specific scenario they had adequate equipment to fight the Bradleys but those were eliminated at the beginning of the game due to a lack in practical TvT experience on the Opfor side of things. With more and more of those events, I can guaranty you that 1st Platoon will destroy those Bradleys at the start of the game just like you destroyed those technicals.

The BUSK is capable of destroying an RPG before it even hits the vehicle. This means with a good driver on the Bradley you'd need about 3-4 RPG's on average to take down 1 of them (counting on an inevitable miss with some evasive maneuvers). I'm not saying it is impossible to destroy one, but in my opinion the csualties you make for taking one down with simple RPG's (Counting on at least a squad lost before it is taken down) seems unfair if you want to play 1st vs 2nd platoon. I do also think with training it would be less of a slaughter as it was last week. But mass casualties are unavoidable with a Bradley on a hill, 600m in the distance.

[E.O'Neill]

I think having one side at an inherent disadvantage in a TvT is positive. Given the fact that both platoons will be given a chance to play on both BLUFOR and OPFOR. Afterall, the point of doing TvT is TRAINING. Realistically, we cant always expect have an inherent advantage over the enemy.